“I think it’s a natural thing that if you’re an activist, you’re thinking about your day-to-day. You encounter those obstacles and you know them really well because you know the issue. And over time, it becomes harder and harder to imagine success.

So, we spend a lot of time with people trying to help them think about what the actual goal is, or what a real win would be. When you have that vision of the outcome, it’s easier to chart ways around the obstacles.“